Wednesday, 11 March 2009

Lancashire County Council? What's Going On?

Investigation into Lancashire County Council, the Blues and Twos Credit Union Ltd and Lancashire Police.

My investigations into Lancashire County Council(LCC) started over 6weeks ago when I first discovered them listed on Dunn and Bradstreets’ website. It is listed there as a company and all of the schools in the county are listed as their ‘trading names’. I was interested to know more about the corporate status of LCC.

LCC was not the only supposed government organisation I found listed as a company on the above website. I could not, however, find them listed at Companies House, the UK Company Register database. This got me thinking!

From my own experience, any incorporated company registered in the UK is done so through Companies House, which is a Trading Fund. The office registered (the ‘registered office’) can either be the main place of business, the home address of the ‘owner/s’ or their solicitors’ office! If the registered offices is outside the UK its not on Companies House.

When I first phoned LCC, about 3wks ago, to ask them about what I had found on D&B I was met with confusion from whom ever I spoke to. I spoke to many different people all of which couldn’t answer my questions and could not put me onto some who could! Then I found one that could!

My question was very simple, “ Is Lancashire County Council a company and if so where is it registered?”

The first answer I always got was “LCC is a local authority, not a company”. My reply to this was very simple too:

“If that is the case, then why can I pay nearly $500 for Dun and Bradstreet International Business report. What information have they got that is worth $500 that I, as a member of the public, can’t get off you for free? Do members of the public have to pay tens of thousands of pounds to get individual reports on all its branch trading activities?”

By this point I had asked whoever was on the phone if they had internet access. “Yes” would always be the reply so I would direct them to the above website before asking the above questions.

The response from this was usually one of amazement. They would accept they new nothing and offered assistance by trying to find someone who could! I must say, everyone I spoke to did their best to find me an answer. Then I got a strange reply.

One man came back on the phone after having me on hold and said, “I have asked around and no one seems to know. Someone did tell me, though, that they had had a similar enquiry last year and they were told they would have to write in as a complaint but no one knew what had happened since”. He told me I should do the same.

I phoned back the next day, this was last week, and finally got through to someone who could answer my first question – Is LCC a company?

This gentleman told me that it was, and that it was registered at Companies House. This wasn’t news to him but he did not know the ins and outs. He said it had special status and that it wasn’t the same as all the other companies. He also thought it had been set up by Royal Charter!

Really? Like the Bank of England?!?

So I went to

What I found is disturbing to say the least! Lancashire County Council is registered. Its number is 666! The full number is IP00666c but if you can accept that zero is NOT a number then the only number I see is 666! (FSA no. 666C)

Search this number at the above website and you will see Lancashire County Council. You will also see that has been removed and is no longer trading! I phoned companies house and they told me that it was a credit union and was registered with the Financial Services Authority! The women couldn’t tell me whether or not they were my county council and referred me to the FSA.

I phoned the FSA and spoke to a lovely woman called Maria (tel. 0207 066 4916) who was very knowledgeable and very helpful! Not often you get the two together! First she told me that the ‘IP’ and ’C’ prefix to the number meant it was formed under the Industrial and Provident Act 1965 and the Credit Union Act 1979.

She then went on to tell me the following:

LCC was incorporated in 2002. Its registered office was 3rd Floor, Christ Church Precinct, County Hall, Preston. It was completely dissolved on the 24th January 2008.

All of the Assets and Liabilities of LCC were transferred on November 12th 2007 to another company called the The Blues and Twos Credit Union Ltd.

The registered address of this company is Lancashire Police Headquarters, PO Box 77, Hutton, Preston. They now own all of LCCs assets and liabilities!

I told her that I was confused because I paid council tax to a company called LCC. She said I shouldn’t because that company no longer exists and no one is trading with that name!?!

Now I was really confused and I got back on the phone to my local borough council and managed to speak to the head of collections! He was stunned to silence and kept saying, “ I don’t know what to say!

I tried in vain to have my questions answered from both my county and borough councils. Many, many phone calls all with the same reception – shock and aw! Still my questioned went unanswered!

Then, on Sun1st March 2009, I had a meeting at Preston Police station with a WPC Srgt Logan 2870. I had actually gone in to submit formal allegations against 3 officers who had stopped me outside Preston Magistrates 5days earlier.

I decided to talk to her about what I had found out about LCC and asked her whether the Police would investigate the matter if LCC would not deny that it is they I am looking at on Companies House!

She sat there in silence as I explained. Previous to this, when I had been explaining the Law to her and how her officers were breaking it, she had kept talking over me and been very dismissive. Now she just sat there.

She suddenly piped up and said “That can’t possibly be true!” To which I said “ You are not entitled to make that decision”
She repeated herself but this time I could see something going on behind her eyes! She was thinking about it! Then she said this

“ It can’t possibly be true because Lancs County Council pay my wages!”

“Really!” I said, “I thought you were employed by the police, sergeant. Are you not?”

And that brought an end to my first visit to Preston Police station!

Since then, I had to phone the police 0845 number for something and the man who answered said “Lancashire Constabulry”

“Oh, is that not Lancashire police Authority?” I replied.

“No sir, this is Lancashire Constabulry!” he said

“Well my council tax pays Lancs Police Authority, not Lancs Constaburly!”

“You need to speak to your council about that sir”

So I did! Trying to get hold of any one at the top at your council is hard but today (5.3.09) I got a call from a man called Gary who is head of corporate finance at South Ribble Borough Council.

I told him a few things and he very quickly sounded very worried! It was either because I was right or because he new I was right! He said he was going to look into it because it was very serious. Also, he said that all the money they collect as tax, every penny, goes to Lancs County Council!

“Then why am I paying you to pay then? What’s going on?”

I then read a few extracts from the Industrial and Provident Act 1965 to him. Now, I’m not sure but I believe he defecated right there on the spot!

He said he was going to check the names on accounts because he thought that what they paid to LCC was paid to an account with a different name!!! I told him it was probably the Blues and Twos! He just said he would get back to me as soon as he could!

That’s where we are up to. Still no conformation as to whether or not LCC (IP00666c) is my county council! But after reading various Acts I can see how it is!!!

The funny thing is, South Ribble Council have a Liabilty Order against the legal fiction known as MICHAEL THOMAS DOBSON. They have been hassling me for months, as I had been conned into thinking it was me! Since I started the above process I hadn’t heard a thing until 2days ago when they sent me a very polite letter asking if I would like to pay by direct debit! Ha ha

The other thing to note is that not one other county council is listed on companies house! Weird!


The Penguin


Lawson Narse said...

Wonderful work Penguin! I wonder where this is going to lead?

David said...

Please keep us updated on this one. Weird eh? Good luck with your complaint against the police, you will need it. (see my comment on police farce blog). You could also update on this too.

The Penguin said...

Not my work, see link.

I just pasted it up here!

Lawson Narse said...

LCC Credit Union merged with
Blues and Twos last year.

LCC is now LCDL.

Company Registration Details

LCDL is the trading name of Lancashire County Developments Limited

Reg No: 01624144
Registered office address: PO Box 78 , County Hall, Preston , PR1 8XJ
Registered in England & Wales
VAT No: 401 2512 22

LCDL Board members
County Councillor Niki Penney (Chair)
County Councillor Hazel Harding (Vice-Chair)
County Councillor Doreen Pollitt
County Councillor Tony Martin
County Councillor Tim Ashton
County Councillor Graham Davies
County Councillor Edward Forshaw
County Councillor Stephen Sutcliffe
County Councillor Keith Young
Ged Fitzgerald (Chief Executive)
Ian Fisher (County Secretary and Solicitor)
Anne Smith

David said...

oops missed the link.

Lawson Narse said...

Oops, so did I!! Twice.
However it all seems to be perfectly legal and above board.

Darwen Reporter said...

Why not get the local rag i.e. The Lancashire Post onto the case?

Earthlet Nigel said...

Horsham District Council and Sussex Police Authority can also be found at Dun & Bradstreet.

As will The Houses of Parliament, The Met, any number of PCT's etc.

Well done for highlighting this.

Gordon said...

Because the Lancashire Evening Post is barely readable drivel that is only made to look remotely competent if you read directly after reading Pluto [the university's SU newspaper].

bryboy said...

This whole episode stinks! How can it be legal for a local authority to turn itself into a company? Surely it means that in any future election the electorate are not voting for a Council they are voting for a Board Of Directors. Does this mean that they don't in future have to stand for election?
There are so many ramifications but well done the researcher!

Anonymous said...

4.5% Dividend on savings now posted to accounts:

Eligibility for Membership

In order to become a member of the Blues and Twos Credit Union you must fall within our “Common Bond”. To be eligible you must be:

An employee or retired member of the Lancashire or Cumbria

* Police Service
* Fire and Rescue Service
* County Council
* Ambulance Service (working in either County only)

Once you have joined close family members living at your address may also qualify.

It looks like the freeloading scum, are benefiting, hugely, from your council tax

Protagonist said...

I did a bit of open source intelligence work (fired up Google). Blues and Twos is a Credit Union.

It is clearly nothing more or less than a savings club where every member saves at least £10 per month.That is what funds it, members paying £10 a month and any interest they get back is on loans made to members. You could form one yourself with your neighbours or your workmates. It's a good idea. Credit Unions keep people out of the usurious clutches of bankers and their banks. They allow people to borrow money from their workmates at low interest rates. They don't lend out on Alabama swamp land double wide trailers and they don't trade in exotic commodities. They are what banks should be.

Quote "A credit union is a “not for profit” financial co-operative, owned entirely by its membership, offering a convenient way to save and to borrow at a low interest rate. Every member makes regular payments into their savings account – this fund then provides the basis for loans at preferential rates. The income generated by lending meets our operating expenses, builds our reserves and pays an annual dividend to our savers. All members are linked by a “common bond” and only those members who fall within the definition of that common bond are eligible to join."

For further explanation of what a Credit Union is and why they are "a good thing" and not some further sinister arm of the state forcing its claw like hands into your pockets, please follow this link

This is a group of police staff pooling regular savings together from their taxed income, nothing more and nothing less.

May I suggest that for a real story about Cops feathering their own nests and really trying to turn policing into a business, rather than a misconstruing a credit union you Google "Southwest One Ltd." That is real corruption. From everything I can see, Blues and Twos is nothing more sinister than a savings club.

Protagonsit said...

Sorry if Blues and Twos doesn't fit the thieving bastard police meme.

Is it at all possible that the legal entity registered at Companies House as Lancashire County Council company number IP00666c is not the same as the branch of local government known as Lancashire County Council.

I think that must be the case otherwise when "All of the Assets and Liabilities of LCC were transferred on November 12th 2007 to another company called the The Blues and Twos Credit Union Ltd." a small Credit Union in Lancashire would have had to take over everything the council owns, is owed or owes. That makes no sense at all.

To be sure, you could get accounts for Company IP00666C and take a look at the balance sheets. Does it look like a county council or does it look like a credit union? If it looks like a council, then poster is right and Lancashire County Council is owned by an obscure credit union. If it looks like a credit union, then whichever moonbat registered the credit union couldn't be arsed to think of a proper name like Blues and Twos and just went with the name Lancashire County Council.

As Blues and Twos has operated since 1992, the most likely explanation for all this is that IP00666C was the council's own credit union and it got merged with Blues and Twos back in 2007.

I may be wrong, but I think my explanation fits the facts. Oh and really, take a look at Soutwest One. That's much more like something to worry about.

it's either banned or compulsory said...

Very good find Penguin.
It reminds me that our future rule by Gauleiter will be based on the Regional Development Agencies that are likewise Private Limited Companies.